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Home»Entertainment»Ben Mankiewicz Interview on TCM The Plot Thickens ‘Cleopatra’ Podcast
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Ben Mankiewicz Interview on TCM The Plot Thickens ‘Cleopatra’ Podcast

VernoNewsBy VernoNewsJuly 2, 2025No Comments11 Mins Read
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Ben Mankiewicz Interview on TCM The Plot Thickens ‘Cleopatra’ Podcast
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It was an atypical spring day in 1962 Italy… atypical exterior of a heat greeting between the very married celebrity Elizabeth Taylor and the very married actor Richard Burton {that a} photographer occurred to catch. The “kissing image,” as it might grow to be identified, caught like wildfire, and the paparazzi by no means let up. Richard Burton dubbed the following press storm “Le Scandale,” and the judgement of the world swiftly adopted — included a condemnation from the Vatican newspaper calling it Taylor’s “erotic vagrancy.”

On the middle of Le Scandale — one which TCM host Ben Mankiewicz calls the “largest within the historical past of American celebrities” — was a mammoth movie, maybe the largest within the historical past of American cinema: twentieth Century Fox’s “Cleopatra.”

'40 Acres'

“The primary {photograph} of them kissing because the rumors had been circulating that they had been concerned was [taken by] a paparazzo hiding beneath a automotive, beneath like a Fiat… mendacity on the bottom, taking an image of them,” Mankiewicz mentioned in an interview with IndieWire. “[Fellow ‘Cleopatra’ star] Martin Landau [said] there have been photographers within the timber. This had by no means occurred on a film earlier than.”

CLEOPATRA, Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton, 1963, TM & Copyright (c) 20th Century Fox Film Corp. All rights reserved.
‘Cleopatra,’ Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton, 1963, TM & Copyright (c) twentieth Century Fox Movie Corp. All rights reserved.twentieth Century Fox Licensing/Merchandising / Everett Assortment

The movie was at all times going to be a large endeavor, however an nearly comical sequence of unlucky occasions had curtailed it into turning into one of the vital costly photos Hollywood had ever produced… lengthy earlier than Burton even joined the undertaking. By the point of their steamy tryst started, “Cleopatra” had been in manufacturing — in suits and begins — for roughly 4 years. Taylor had signed on for the unheard sum of $1 million in 1959 (a wage she reportedly requested for less than in jest).

Then she had well being issues (she nearly died).

The unique Marc Antony and Julius Caesar dropped out (Stephen Boyd and Peter Finch, respectively).

The primary director Rouben Mamoulian dropped out.

Footage was scrapped.

Quite a few drafts of the script had been rejected.

The whole manufacturing moved from London to Rome, the place units needed to be reconstructed.

By the point cameras had been rolling on “Cleopatra” scenes that will really make it into the bloated four-hour epic’s closing lower, it was not simply over finances — it had blown previous any semblance of a finances. For a time, it was the solely manufacturing twentieth Century Fox had going. That studio lot again in Century Metropolis? Nearly empty.

It could be due to the perceived failure of the film — notoriety it maybe shouldn’t have earned — that the sort of studio system the American movie business had operated beneath because the ’20s would largely die. New Hollywood got here in swiftly after with an period that will be outlined by maverick filmmakers and stars with elevated monetary company and energy.

Virtually everybody and every thing concerned with “Cleopatra” survived and thrived after its launch. Taylor and Burton outlived the scandal and appeared collectively within the all-timer “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolff?” Fox finally launched “The Sound of Music” and financially recovered. Co-star Rex Harrison led within the largest film of 1964: “My Honest Girl,” and received an Academy Award for it.

However then there was Joseph L. Mankiewicz — the one-time boy marvel of Hollywood, who set an Oscar report by profitable back-to-back trophies for each writing and directing (1949’s “A Letter to Three Wives and 1950’s “All About Eve”). The person got here into “Cleopatra” midway, and he appeared as much as tackling the gargantuan accountability. He had loved nice success a decade earlier along with his Marlon Brando-starring “Julius Caesar,” so he knew the time interval. He had directed Taylor within the massive 1959 hit “Immediately, Final Summer time,” so he knew the expertise. When he joined the movie, he was 51-going-on-52, very squarely in his prime.

“Cleopatra” would break Joe Mankiewicz.

CLEOPATRA, from left, Elizabeth Taylor, director Joseph L. Mankiewicz, on-set, 1963, TM & copyright ©20th Century Fox film Corp. All rights reserved.
‘Cleopatra,’ from left, Elizabeth Taylor, director Joseph L. Mankiewicz, on-set, 1963, TM & copyright ©twentieth Century Fox movie Corp. All rights reserved.©20thCentFox/Courtesy Everett Assortment

By the point the film was wrapped, in theaters, and at last sending some a reimbursement to Fox, Mankiewicz was a shell of the powerhouse he had as soon as been. He would direct simply three extra narrative options, solely one in all which might obtain any actual crucial or industrial success (the good “Sleuth” in 1972). At one time probably the most lauded author/director combo, he’d by no means pen one other screenplay, although he lived one other 30 years after the discharge of “Cleopatra.” Not solely that, however the filmmaker struggled to put in writing something in any respect, together with private letters and Christmas playing cards.

CLEOPATRA, from left, Elizabeth Taylor, director Joseph L. Mankiewicz, on-set, ca. 1962. TM & copyright ©20th Century-Fox film Corp. All rights reserved.
‘Cleopatra,’ from left, Elizabeth Taylor, director Joseph L. Mankiewicz, on-set, ca. 1962. TM & copyright ©twentieth Century-Fox movie Corp. All rights reserved.©20thCentFox/Courtesy Everett Assortment

“The Plot Thickens,” Turner Basic Films’ podcast sequence that tackles varied elements of Hollywood historical past, will discover the troubled historical past of this unwieldy Egyptian epic in its new season — out July 17 — by a uniquely private lens. Launched first for IndieWire, TCM has unveiled a trailer, narrated by Joe Mankiewicz’s nice nephew, Ben, who serves because the sequence host.

“[Joe] would have mentioned his largest skilled remorse actually would have been ‘Cleopatra.’ He mentioned it was an act of ‘whoredom.’ He did it for the cash. However I imply, lots of people in Hollywood do issues for cash, after which make one thing nice,” Ben Mankiewicz mentioned.

“Cleopatra” grew to become an albatross for Ben’s uncle… a nightmare he was by no means capable of escape and one thing he by no means once more needed to debate. By way of private diaries that Joe’s grandson Nick Davis additionally utilized in his twin bio of Joe and Herman “Competing With Idiots” in 2021, “The Plot Thickens” reconstructs the historical past of the difficult manufacturing by the eyes of its author/director.

“[When] most individuals consider Cleopatra, they give thought to the concerning the affair and the scandal, Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, after which these form of myths [about] the film that destroyed a studio,” Ben Mankiewicz mentioned. “We dispatch a number of these myths within the podcast, however we in all probability wouldn’t have executed [the podcast] with out the household angle… Joe was damaged by it in actually substantive methods. And he had been one of many actually best filmmakers of the Fifties. But it surely did a quantity on him and that was price analyzing.”

CLEOPATRA, Rex Harrison, Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton, 1963. TM and Copyright © 20th Century Fox Film Corp. All rights reserved. Courtesy: Everett Collection.
‘Cleopatra,’ Rex Harrison, Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton, 1963. TM and Copyright © twentieth Century Fox Movie Corp. All rights reserved. Courtesy: Everett Assortment.©20thCentFox/Courtesy Everett Assortment

The Mankiewicz household is true Hollywood royalty. Joe’s brother Herman received an Oscar for some neglected gem known as “Citizen Kane.” Joe’s son Tom wrote three James Bond flicks. Herman’s son Don wrote a rating of options within the ’50s, ’60s, and ’70s. Ben’s father Frank was president of Nationwide Public Radio, was Robert F. Kennedy, Sr.’s press secretary, and headed up George McGovern’s 1972 presidential marketing campaign. Frank’s different son Josh is a journalist on NBC’s “Nightline.”

“There was a line I heard so much rising up. Members of the family used to say it,” Ben Mankiewicz says in “The Plot Thickens” promo. “The road was that my grandfather wrote the most effective film ever made — ‘Citizen Kane’ — and that my nice uncle directed the worst film ever made.”

By way of its reframing in “The Plot Thickens,” it turns into clear that the efforts on the middle of “Cleopatra” had been that of passionate movie professionals — individuals who cared concerning the films. If Joe Mankiewicz had his manner, the truth is, it might’ve been two epics as an alternative of 1: one half targeted on Julius Caesar, the opposite on Marc Antony.

“This form of historic costume drama is just not my sort of film, however… one of many myths is that it’s the worst film ever made. It’s not even one of many 3,000 worst films ever made. A few of it’s fairly good. And I believe that if Joe Mankiewicz, my uncle, had gotten his manner and launched it as two three-hour films, that among the points — the pacing issues, the place it really appears sluggish — would have been higher, since you would have had two tighter, three-hour films,” Ben defined. “It’s humorous. Now, should you say, ‘Pay attention, I do know you requested me to shoot one film, however I’ve really shot two. Would you like each?’ Each studio could be like, ‘Is that this a trick query? Yeah, we’ll take two, certain.’”

Because it stands, although there have been varied variations introduced over time, “Cleopatra” exists as one 243 minute movie. However it might finally be a hit on the books. It scored a Greatest Image nomination, and although it didn’t really flip a revenue for just a few years as a result of its reported $44 million finances, it was not the entire monetary catastrophe some later claimed — in actuality, it was the highest grossing film of 1963.

“Spyros Skouras had been the president of the corporate previous to Darryl Zanuck coming again. Spyros stop, however principally acquired fired,” Ben defined. “However his time had come to an finish, and he and the board form of blamed him for the fiasco of ‘Cleopatra,’ after which Zanuck got here and blamed Joe. Spyros Skouras… what he actually [was good at was] his relationships and [setting] up offers with theater house owners, and he had arrange a deal the place that they had pay as you go for ticket gross sales of ‘Cleopatra.’ And so, proper off the bat, ‘Cleopatra’ had $20 million are available in in a short time… after which extra after that on the field workplace, to the place — okay, it misplaced some huge cash — however nonetheless introduced again, let’s say, $25 million. And clearly, Fox doesn’t get all that, however they get a number of it. And by the point 1965 rolls round, once they promote it to community TV, it’s within the black.”

So this specific “The Plot Thickens” season is slightly bit totally different for TCM’s resident savant. Greater than the narrator of an interesting chapter in movie historical past, Mankiewicz is recasting his family’s heritage and the repute of a movie whose affect, whereas nice, is maybe unfairly perceived.

“What you get from this podcast is [that] Joe threw every thing into this. I imply, he poured his coronary heart and soul into this film. Due to the cash, [there was] this notion that he got here in, he wasn’t the fitting director, [and] he didn’t know what he was doing. He positively knew what he was doing,” Ben mentioned. “He simply tried to do an excessive amount of, among the many different issues, tried to do an excessive amount of. To start with, he was a therapist to Elizabeth and to Richard and to Rex and to everyone else on the forged.”

Joe Mankiewicz used pace, Ben defined, to assist him by the grueling shoot days. He really ended principal pictures within the wheelchair after mistakenly taking pictures up and hitting a sciatic nerve.

“He’s in a wheelchair, and he’s acquired to recover from sand. In order that they carried him out to the shot on a stretcher. And he’s like writing on the stretcher, whereas a bunch of fellows carry him out so he can sit and and direct the scene,” Ben recounted. “[His] diaries reveal a man who was a director within the day, after which incessantly would go house [and] write the screenplay at evening… He wanted assist.”

This, together with the controversies surrounding Le Scandale, climate delays, the recurrent well being problems with forged members, the haggling over the movie’s closing lower, and, after all, the film’s legacy because the movie that modified Hollywood… all can be explored when “The Plot Thickens: Cleopatra” begins dropping weekly episodes beginning July 17, wherever you get your podcasts.

Try the trailer, launched first completely to IndieWire, under:

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